Episode 93: Cold Readings with Mary Greer
Cold Reading Definition from The Skeptic’s Dictionary by Robert Todd Carroll
Cold reading refers to a set of techniques used by professional manipulators to get a subject to behave in a certain way or to think that the cold reader has some sort of special ability that allows him to “mysteriously” know things about the subject. Cold reading goes beyond the usual tools of manipulation: suggestion and flattery. In cold reading, salespersons, hypnotists, advertising pros, faith healers, con men, and some therapists bank on their subject’s inclination to find more meaning in a situation than there actually is. (read more)
Mary Greer joins me to talk about Cold Readings and Mentalist techniques with the aim of taking back some of the territory taken over by those with ill intentions.
From Mary’s Blog – Cold Reading and Tarot, Part 2
December 4, 2008
Part 2: Hijacking What It Means to Be Human
(Read Part 1 to learn about mentalists, skeptics and cold reading.)
Imagine my surprise when I discovered there are at least a half-dozen extremely expensive books marketed by mentalists on tarot, of which I’d never heard in my forty-plus years collecting tarot books. And, they were written by and for professional tarot readers that I didn’t even know existed as a self-identified group. Of course, I was aware there are fraudulent tarot readers who deliberately used cold reading techniques to con their marks. Naively, I had assumed, though, that cold reading was used mostly by fake mediums and clairvoyants (as in the 19th century) and by mentalist entertainers. I had no idea that tarot was regularly taught as a scam except among some phone psychics and those storefront psychics who used it to extort money for removing curses, etc.—a whole different, albeit related, enterprise. [Note: some mentalists are also ethical tarot readers, and not all mentalists deny the paranormal. I am also not referring, in most of what follows, to ethical mentalists who are honest about using mental tricks.]
Mary Greer
Mary K. Greer is an author and teacher specializing in methods of self exploration and transformation. She has practiced tarot for over thirty-eight years, has taught at the Omega Institute for twenty years, and is featured at most Tarot conferences and symposia in the United States and abroad.
Active in Tarot associations and internet discussion groups, she also teaches and writes for the women’s and pagan communities, and is an Arch-Priestess/Hierophant in the Fellowship of Isis. Tools And Rites Of Transformation (T.A.R.O.T.) is a learning center founded and directed by Mary for the study of divination, women’s mysteries, and the transformative arts.
Visit Mary K. Greer’s Tarot Blog
Her most recent book is entitled 21 Ways to Read a Tarot Card (May 2006).
Other books include:
- Understanding the Tarot Court (2004) with Tom Little.
- The Complete Book of Tarot Reversals (2002)
- Tarot for Your Self: A Workbook for Personal Transformation (1984, 2002)
- Aromatherapy: Healing for the Body and Soul (1998) with Kathi Keville
- Women of the Golden Dawn: Rebels and Priestesses (1995)
- The Essence of Magic: Tarot, Ritual, and Aromatherapy (1993)
- Tarot Mirrors: Reflections of Personal Meaning (1988)
- Tarot Constellations: Patterns of Personal Destiny (1987)
Mary has an M.A. in English literature and was on the faculty and administration of New College of California (San Francisco) for eleven years. As a world traveler, she has lived in Japan, Germany, England, Mexico, six states in the U.S., and currently leads workshops around the world. She resides in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada.
Mentalist-Gerry McCambridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_UDaahAd5o
BBC – History of Magic – Mentalism (1 of 6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_EjG-Oa3hE
Debunking “Psychics” and other Miracle Workers #1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRAO3dyabvQ
How to Make People Like you in 90 Seconds or Less
Music Credits
- Opening Music & Transition Music: Narcissus by Queenie from Dream of Flight
- Closing Music: I Married a Magician by the Dust Poets from The Podsafe Music Network
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December 22nd, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Loved this podcast! Thank you Leisa and Mary for a very thoughtful and informed discussion of Cold Reading.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:50 am
My heart sank while listening to this. I’m astonished and saddened that the carny techniques of “cold reading”, which are the domain of cheap birthday party magicians as well as those money-fed ghouls who pretend to speak to the dead, are being re-packaged as some kind of aid to tarot.
Mary Greer talks a lot about the intent of the reader, and if someone is “legitimate” they could use cold reading as an adjunct to the reading. It is bad to do a scam cold reading for money, but perfectly ethical to do cold reading techniques if that “helps a person.” Wouldn’t a legitimate tarot card read simply read the cards, and not be looking for visual cues, such as puzzled expressions or nodding the head in agreement? One wonders why the cards are needed at all.
The icing on the cake was your off-hand remark about knowing a “psychic” who uses cards as a mere prop for whatever cold-reading agenda she is pushing. Mary Greer agrees that this can be a good tool for psychis. I call it bullshit, and this denigrates the value of the cards by spouting off whatever meaning she WANTS them to be.
Am I misinterpreting this show? I hope so.
I apologize about my tone, but this really upsets me.
Sincerely,
Brad Ingle
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:15 am
Hi Brad,
It wasn’t my intent to legitimize cold reading or the fraudulent use of tarot. I know we both mentioned telling the querent where the information came from if it wasn’t from the cards. And I personally disagree with people using the cards to push an agenda and I include in this category people who do solely ‘intuitive’ readings where there is no regard for basic card interpretation. I probably should have qualified that I know people who do it and don’t personally approve.
I think the basic point, which may have been lost in the execution, cold readers have hijacked some simple ways to connect and communicate in a reading. I do think the book, How to Make People Like you in 90 or less (which is not a cold reading book) has ideas that could help readers get their message across.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Thank you for clearing that up. Next time, I should have listened to your podcast more closely before I started running my mouth.
Apologies,
Brad
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I really appreciate you as a listener. I regret any distress. Honestly its not a subject I’m very intersted in exploring and wouldn’t recommend someone seeking out mentalist material because I wonder if some of the negativity would wear off. It is something to be aware of, that people are using Tarot in this way. Additionally I’m uncomfortable in readings when people assume and want me to have super powers. I can think of a few times when I’ve tried to make it clear that isn’t the case and the people didn’t believe me.
That is one of the qualities that mentalist take advantage of.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:24 pm
A mentalist, as your podcast points out, is merely an actor pretending to be a psychic for an audience’s amusement. The works of Derren Brown and Max Maven come to mind.
A charlatan is someone who uses the techniques of mentalism and stage magic, and uses it to gain money, sex or power. Or all three.
My first love is magic. The rabbit out of hat kind, not the Golden Dawn kind. I’m something of a frustrated sleight of hand artist. Magic and mentalism have always attracted a (pseudo) sceptical crowd. I don’t know why that is. Perhaps it goes back to the days of Houdini and Dunninger exposing phony mediums.
I have a huge library of magic dvds and books. Mary Greer is quite correct that these are expensive. But mentalism, sleight of hand, and other secrets, are a very special skill, that is not publicly available, and magicians really don’t want it to be. I’m glad something like 13 Steps to Mentalism is expensive. In the wrong hands, one could start their own religion with that one, and divert the course of civilization.
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Very Interesting show Leisa. As you know I am from the shore in new jersey and on our boadwalks their are many “so called” tarot readers and people who claim to talk to the dead. I have found most of them fony. And as a tarot reader myself find these people just exploite our craft and makes it harder and harder to brake down the stereo type images for the rest of us.
December 24th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I really enjoyed the episode. There were many valuable things for me in what you and Mary discussed. I found myself looking at my own practices, and seeing that I’ve used some of these techniques over the years unintentionally – or rather, NOT with the intention of scamming someone, but with the intention of doing a better reading. These techniques mostly come back to deep listening (to the client), and being attentive to body language, facial expressions, and emotions. However, I like how Mary put it that she always tells the person where she’s getting the information and doesn’t pretend like she just knew it psychically. I’ve also found myself doing that, telling the client when I’m using intuition, or when I’m picking something up from their movements or expressions, rather than using astrological data to read something. You are so right – it really comes down to intention.
December 25th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Leisa & Mary -
Thank you for a wonderful Podcast that is certainly thought provoking. One thing that was not clear for me in this Podcast is whether either of you acknowledge that one form of cold reading is simply that a reader goes into a reading knowing nothing about a client – asking no questions, and, in some cases, stopping the client from voluntarily giving them information until the reading is over. What I got was that the “only”, or perhaps better worded as “major” meaning for a cold readng was the more negative form of reading a clients body posture, facial expression etc. I really feel that both meanings have equal weight.
Tarot can be used to scam people -it can be used as a “mis-direct”, taking their attention away from the reader. The client’s readtion to a given card can also be used to color or direct the reading. The majority of readers, however, do not read in this manner.
You made an important distinction when you noted that the intent, ethics and purpose behind the use of various techniques determines the category that they call in (scam reading or true reading).
Mary makes the point that many eraders do not understand the mechanisms that they are using during a reading. My thought here is that we can read using intuition and the cards, and that it will flow, and the message t hat comes out is what it needs to be. The reader is t he channel that they were meant to be. Playing the devils advocate, if readers were encouraged to study the mechanisms used in their personal style of reading, would the mechanisms then becme more important than the reading itself. Would they then have the ability to get in the way of a reading?
I see cold readngs and mentalism as vastly different from a Tarot reading – or from any other type of oracular reading. Perhaps the reason that most readers are not drawn to this material is because they have no need to know it.
Is the study of this material providing a more solid base for our readings, or is it clouding them?
Blessings,
Bonnie
December 26th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Once I met a person like that. I was in shop, kind of occult shop, and the guy came saying he wanted to read me Lemormand cards. Ok, thought. What bad can come out of this? So… a person that used key-words or themes to try and get something out of me… The person did not know I am a tarot reader. The guy made a lot of assumptions on themes such as a broken heart (which everyone has already had) or a difficulty at work. I just nodded along… and he got tired and left.
And all I could think of was: wow… this must work with other people… Sad.
That is why many people think that reading cards is for guessing the best way off of stuff…
Anyways, great episode and we want more of Mary Greer!
February 5th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Thank you so much for such an interesting podcast. I am a fan of Mary Greer and it was delightful to hear her insights. Shanti, Theresa
June 15th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Thank you for this most illuminating podcast. Apparently the doyonne of Tarot is herself a self-confessed cold reader. Of course it is important to mention that cold reading is the preferred technique of grifters and con artists worldwide. Mary seems to justify the practice of cold reading by stating that “The fact is, most tarot readers use many of the supposed cold reading techniques, but so do public speakers, good mothers, psychologists, priests, doctors, etc.” What Mary fails to mention is that a lot of these people are con artists as well. Furthermore, a previous quote proves to be rather illuminating , “you can read as much or more from the querent as you can from the cards.” Perhaps so many readers are using cold reading techniques , because they have refused to master any of the occult principles and meanings of the cards, and when they find themselves in the reader/ sitter relationship, they are at a loss as how to proceed. Cold reading is the default mode.
October 25th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
I’d like to clarify one thing. Some of the cold reading techniques are grounded in what are simply known as “people skills.” Show me one person (besides those with autism or similar conditions), who in any face-to-face communication with another person does not consciously or unconsciously employ some of the communication or “people” skills that are claimed as “cold reading.” Just exploring the subject of non-verbal communication (to say nothing of the verbal) should make this clear: http://nonverbal.ucsc.edu/ and
http://www.fhsu.edu/~zhrepic/Teaching/GenEducation/nonverbcom/nonverbcom.htm
As noted on the latter site: “Everything communicates . . . No matter how one can try, one cannot not communicate.”
As for the verbal cues: only one indicator of how that functions can be found in
Lakoff and Johnson’s _Metaphors We Live By_.
http://theliterarylink.com/metaphors.html
As expert readers of symbolism we can’t help but recognize the synchronicity between a person’s metaphors (language) and the symbolism of the cards. This knowledge, used by an unethical con-artist can be used to manipulate.
If you want to be absolutely sure that no “people skills” interfere with the message of a reading, the ideal would be to simply read by mail. The querent sends in their question. The reader pulls the cards and types (or speaks into a recorder) his or her interpretation based solely on the occult meanings and principles of the cards. Any human interaction might otherwise effect the reader consciously or unconsciously through verbal or non-verbal communication. Such a reading is not invalid.
Actually, a computer can do this better than a human being (just input all of the occult principles and meanings per card and for as many card combinations as possible). A human being can still do better at integrating the data in an entire spread, but at least the computer data will make sure you didn’t forget any of the basics elements.
All I’m saying is to be aware there are con-artists who train themselves in people skills and human trends, with the intent to deceive. That doesn’t make learning about people skills bad.
There’s a whole range of tarot reading styles and methods that can be used honestly and ethically and most interactive ones consciously use some “people and communication skills.” To claim that the tarot can only be read in one way is like saying that only one religion is right and only a particular strict sect of it should be followed. That person will usually claim to know what the “right way” is that everyone else has to follow.